[LVS] Council Pre-Meeting Agenda (16/6/2018)

[ABParadigm]

Hello! The next LVS Council meeting will be hosted by EarthCow! If you have a topic, or cannot attend, please state it below.

Additionally, please note that we have been talking about the ForestHills warp getting a revamp. Please read the previous meeting notes on the wiki, and voice your opinions on the matter.

Previous meeting notes located here: https://zedwork.co.uk/wiki/Zedling_Coun ... 2018-06-02

[KhasOrn]

I would please like to request of The Zed Man the footprint (dimensions) preferred so adjustments can be made to my proposed renovations before the next meeting. That being said, it'll be pretty much along the same vibe in the existing map and screenshots, so I'd love to hear which direction (of the two) did 'you' like; #1 - The minimalist one, or #2 - The one with the spruce towers.

I had a couple complaints about the site I was using to 'share' so I made an imgur account, but anyone who wants to stroll around in the builds just check out the map download here: http://www.mediafire.com/file/fizn9zu60 ... 20WARP.zip

Screen shots here:

https://imgur.com/a/dZTZGIa

and Part 2 here:

https://imgur.com/a/miNxCWt

I've seen Ratitoy's design for the hub. Take a look at them before continuing to read...

*Plays Jeopardy music*

So, obviously, Rat's and my designs are as different as night and day. My own is minimalistic in nature vs his extremely decorative style, so that actually simplifies matters imho. If the council votes for the more decorative style I'll just bow out and leave it to him cuz frankly that style is not within my strengths at all and I'd be very reluctant to start picking at it and suggesting tweaks. No need to prove the old adage about the number of cooks in the kitchen right yet again.

[tim]

Hey apologize for not showing up on the last meeting had a party and when i got home fell asleep=P im gone have to apologies for this one as well as i have a job to do erlier sorry...

[ABParadigm]

I do not know what is going on at ForestHills currently; it seems that Ratitoy wants to do work on the warp zone as well. I would prefer to do a vote, possibly have you both work on it, but we will see once the meeting comes up. Either way, no work should be done on the warp zone currently, as the council has not seized control of it yet. IMO if work is being done on it right now, it should be considered griefing. That isn't to stop you working on it in creative, or having talks with Ratitoy, but actual work on LVS should be nowhere near commencing yet.

[KhasOrn]

For the record, it is not I doing 'work' on Forest Hills warp at the moment, nor would I considering the last thing said on this topic was:

"IV - ForestHills III - Revenge of the Spruce - KhasOrn
After a long awaited fifteen minutes, KhasOrn got back to the council with the screenshots. A few !ZF commands and refreshes later, we were graced with a beautiful spruce building, with diorite, white glass and glowstone, and small trees adjacent. It was agreed that this revamp is beautiful, however some of the more official business had to be dealt with. The current mayor, MsKizz, has been somewhat inactive and it was decided that there should be a small vote of sorts in a later meeting, not much longer than within a month. To paraphrase: The council would like to take over Foresthills, however no action was taken yet pending the community's hearing. A vote will occur within the next two meetings, depending on how long it takes for the community to get up to speed. In this time more design work will be conducted, and more screenshots shown to the community as well."

[ABParadigm]

We heard out KhasOrn's vision for the warp, and at this point I think he should be the only one to work on the warp zone. I feel this topic being kicked to the forums is not needed, and we have given the community enough time to get up-to-speed and we don't need anymore discussion, realistically. The notes state what was said, and anyone currently working on the warp, and anyone not KhasOrn expecting to revamp the warp should re-read the notes, and expect to work under KhasOrn's guidance instead of build their own plans. That is where I am standing ATM. We absolutely cannot kick this topic to the forums a third time or no work will get done, and it will just frustrate anyone wanting to work on it.

[Spectatre]

Given this has been kicked to the forums twice now, the Forest Hills build wants nipped in the bud this meeting.

Do we as a council nominate someone to 'complete' this one building, or not.

Whether we also want to 'take back' control of Forest Hills is also a potential side-discussion, but I don't feel it is necessary given the only qualm people seem to have is this one building, so can we do a vote, easy peas.

===

Edit 9/6 - The original builder of the building (Ratitoy) has started finishing it. Given that I feel the building ceases to be a council issue. Ockham's Razor saves us from ourselves.

My 2c on Forest Hills going back to the council (as that was kicked to the forums for discussion) - I consider the length of time Jungle warp didn't have a mayor, and Swamp had a mayor desperate to abdicate, before the mayorships were rescinded. There were basically zero warp issues in that time, in either warp. This FH warp building aside, are there any other FH concerns that have not been attended to due to Kizz not being on for a month?

[KhasOrn]

Here is my synopsis:

Imho, the Forest Hills building sat there untouched and unfinished for quite a long period of time - I actually can't even take a guess at how long - it's been that long. Finally, a couple people became interested in renovating the town a bit in terms of cleaning up unfinished builds. I, personally, was interested in the warp and portal building (which everyone uses and thus I think falls a little more outside the realm of a 'personal build').

The council discussed it at length across 2 meetings and planned to finalise on the third what was to be done, siting proper diplomacy (in terms of bringing everyone up to speed and contacting MsKizz - The Mayor) as the reason for the delay - all agreed upon by everyone in the council.

I continued up to this day working on designs as requested by the council.

Hugest coincidence ever, one of the original builders has just finished the design, after countless months of neglect, and is ready to move forward and finish it.

I and xXRatitoyFeareXx had a discussion in which, and I quote Rat: "We also came up with the idea that council can either choose my build or one of his two." Rat and I agreed we would let the council handle it, I believed.

On June 5th, in a place where words happen, Rat made it clear he wanted to go ahead with his 'now finished' design of the Forest Hills hub, and another member of the council made it clear to him "we still have to vote on it on the council, no way should you fix it now..."

On June 8th, I was looking at the Forest Hills hub, working out some measurements and was a bit shocked to see a sign stating "I am currently fixing the hub - Ratitoy 6/7/2019" and upon looking around realised that renovations were already underway.

I am just a little upset as to how this all turned out considering I followed the proper channels, and even had a long pleasant discussion with Rat, only to learn it was all circumvented and my and the council's words meant nothing in the end. By doing this, should he be able to complete his unauthorized alterations, Rat has knowingly taken the discussion from a petition of 'renovating an unfinished build' to 'destroying a finished build and replacing it with a new one’ which of course seems a lot less of a reasonable thing. Excellent political manoeuvring on his part (if the council takes no problem with him ignoring their edicts in the end) I must say. There's a bit of a sting to that considering my own significant time and emotional investment.

Rat's response to all this is that my design, the one with the two towers, "would make a good auto farm *smiley-face*"

I understand he is very protective of his builds so I understand his motivations, but I sincerely do wish he had interacted with me more genuinely. I was completely ‘straight up' and genuine with him and continue to try to be with you all. I hope our future interactions are better.

[Forseth]

Well.. here is the bottom line. As the server has a clear "No Grief" rule, players will need the original creators permission before adding to, removing or changing in some form, the original creators build. In a case where the original builder can't be found, the council can vote on whether the change is approved or not.

In this case, the only one who has permission to alter anything on the build in question (and even then needs to think twice before doing so) is the warp's Mayor. The Mayor unfortunately isn't very active on the server at the moment. The original designer and constructor of the warp building has been inactive for so long that the project is deemed (possibly only unofficially) abandoned/finished. Also, the original builder wasn't building something for themselves, but was building on commission of the council/Previous warp mayor, meaning that they didn't actually own the building. It was part of the warp town.

This all turns down to the following.

Unless the council voted yes to allow modifications, any modifications to the build in question should be considered griefing. Should the original builder of the warp build come back, even he/she would need permission from the Mayor, as the building isn't theirs and since large amount of time has past. They wound't know what plans had changed since they first started building on it and should have consulted the Mayor first. Since the mayor isn't active, they too would need the council's approval before starting working on it again. And by approval I mean official vote.

Please correct me If I'm wrong.

[Forseth]

Well.. here is the bottom line. As the server has a clear "No Grief" rule, players will need the original creators permission before adding to, removing or changing in some form, the original creators build. In a case where the original builder can't be found, the council can vote on whether the change is approved or not.

In this case, the only one who has permission to alter anything on the build in question (and even then needs to think twice before doing so) is the local warp's Mayor. The Mayor of Forest Hills unfortunately isn't very active on the server at the moment. The original designer and constructor of the warp building has been inactive for so long that the project is deemed (possibly only unofficially) abandoned/finished. Also, the original builder wasn't building something for themselves, but was building on commission of the council/Previous warp mayor, meaning that they didn't actually own the building. It was part of the warp town.

This all turns down to the following.

Unless the council voted yes to allow modifications, any modifications to the build in question should be considered griefing. Should the original builder of the warp build come back, even he/she would need permission from the Mayor, as the building isn't theirs and since large amount of time has past. They wouldn't know what plans had changed since they first started building on it and should have consulted the Mayor first. Since the mayor isn't active, they too would need the council's approval before starting working on it again. And by approval I mean official vote.

Please correct me If I'm wrong.