[LVS] Council Pre-Meeting Agenda - 11th August

[Spectatre]

Meeting!

Notes: https://zedwork.co.uk/wiki/Zedling_Council_Meeting_2018-07-28

Topics/apologies? Below

[ABParadigm]

I've got a whopper...

I was wondering if we could think about revising our "please be kind" rule a touch for public server chat. After a fairly... unneeded... heated... and uncomfortable... discussion in chat yesterday, resulting in a member of the server stepping off-line for a little while, I thought it may be a good idea to draw a few lines.

I feel like it should be outright against the rules to persist in making another member of the server uncomfortable. To clarify, this covers persisted not accidental offense. This could be, but is not limited to, talk about politics, imposing personal views, and just being rude or mean in general. This should be a safe zone, and you shouldn't have to step off-line to get away from someone or a conversation.

I also feel like politics, of any nation, should also be against the rules. Current events do not need to be barred, but when it starts to get into hostile debate I think there should be a line drawn.

I really don't want to bring the cone of silence down... but "please be kind" can only go so far when no one knows where a line is drawn, unless they personally draw it. I also DEFINITELY think this does not warrant a ban, at least for the first offense... I think this should be warning driven at best. I also think that it should be allowed to talk about these things freely in private message, provided it is not hostile. This is just regarding the public server chat.

[Forseth]

Although I appreciate what you are trying to say AB, I think what you are asking is a bit above of what Is needed or possible.

The level of conversation depends on the people involved in the conversation:

Example: If two American players that are pro Trump are having a discussion on how awesome Trump is, it's not something the server should (or could) forbid. Simply put it's two players agreeing to a statement. However the same topic, Politics, could go from friendly to unfriendly in a matter of moments If the to players have different point's of view.

My point is that the server cannot regulate what people may talk about in chat. It just isn't possible and shouldn't be endorsed.


What's offensive for one is childish for another. What's gruesome for one is flowers and rainbows for another:

Example: Player is very proud of his/her new leather jacket, tells the players online how it's made from endangered animals and is his/her new favorite item since they made it themselves. A different player reads chat and is revolted and express his/her disgust for the words and action of the first player. Discussion about what's right and wrong takes place and the animal friend decides to step of the server because they are too disgusted.

Was the first player offending the second or was the second a bit to touchy? Is there a right or wrong in this conversation? What should either of them do? What happens If a majority of the online players agree to a point of view and the minority are offended. Who should stop discussing, the majority or the minority? Who is going off the "line"? Point being, unless you define all these questions and more, how could you ever draw a line?


Those that repeatedly harass or offends other players should be told to stop.

Are you being offended?: If there is a discussion going that you find offensiv, either ignore it (don't read the conversation) or let the debaters know that the topic is unsettling for you and ask them to stop. Should this fail, don't enter a conversation that clearly offends/unsettles you. Let the players know, again, that it's not a welcome discussion and they should take it elsewhere than a public server. Should that fail, stop reading chat. If the conversation is so offensive that It might even be inappropriate to children, then let the Guardians know.

Are you offending others? Bottom line: Don't offend others, If others are telling you that you are being offensive, lower the discussion to a point where all players are not offended and then figure out a common ground. Discuss what's causing the others to take offense, maybe they just misinterpret you wrong? Ask how you should put it to make it sound less offensive. etc etc.

It's not that hard people. We shouldn't need rules regulating what we speak.

[SneakySkeleton]

I'm not going to make this meeting, as I'm out for the night.

However, I would like to just state my opinion on ABP's topic of the "Be kind" rule.

I pretty much agree with Forseth in this instance.

I realise calm conversations about politics and current world events can very quickly become a hostile environment. Everyone comes from different walks of life, and everyone will have their own topics which are a bit sensitive to them. How are we to know what is sensitive to someone else? We have talked about this topic a few times in the past during council meetings, and as far as I'm aware, the outcome has always been generally the same. That outcome being: respect your fellow players, and if someone asks you to stop talking about a topic, then stop. Simply stopping upon request seems to be the easiest way to solve these issues.

https://zedwork.co.uk/wiki/Zedling_Coun ... n:_Zedwick - Council Meeting (1st July 2017)
https://zedwork.co.uk/wiki/Zedling_Coun ... lvergal.29 Council Meeting (27th August 2016)

If someone is persistent, after having been asked to stop/warned of rude chat behaviour, then I'd agree that is grounds for a ban. Otherwise, I'd personally disagree, however that's not my decision to make. If you dislike something someone is saying, ask them to stop, or let a Guardian know about it.

-Sneaks

[ABParadigm]

I understand, we cannot simply bar words I suppose - I had not gone on to think about levels of sensitivity depending on the person, if I am honest. I was going back to the other day, when it was clear everyone in the chat, but this one person, were uncomfortable, and the one person was persisting on moving the conversation in that direction. You are right, not everything can be removed just because it is a certain topic given everyone is sensitive to different things. I still do think there should be more severity if it is clear people in chat are uncomfortable, and say so, although you are right in the fact we do not to make a rule for it.

If anything, I would like to turn this into a PSA, it likely doesn't deserve to be an outright topic if - as Sneaky has enlightened us on - it has been brought up multiple times before. I just would like to try to avoid chat becoming toxic, because it certainly did the other day.

[ABParadigm]

Whoops... due to a schedule change I may not make this meeting after all. Sorry!

[Memery]

Unfortunately, I have to attend a BBQ tonight in Reading and will be unable to make the meeting, sorry!

[Dax23333]

I dunno if i'll be there either