[Zz] The Nether Reset and Horse Highway 2.0 - What to do?

[lateoclock]

i like treis's idea for there to be leadership. we're much more likely to have success if someone's in charge of organizing things.

my suggestion:
> treis --> mapping out the roads and portal stops based on which regions we need the network to connect.
> ryucuis --> designing/directing/implementing the rail system, and linking the portals correctly to the overworld.
> lateocock --> acquiring and managing whatever resources y'all need to make it happen.

[RYucuis]

We may want to look into setting up donation locations to collect materials. After I am done rebuilding my transit line I will see how much I have left to put into the project. I will be doing a bunch of mining for this too.

[Treiskaideka]

Okay, so wait, to sort it all and sum it up:

1) A definit group to be responsible for the planning so that people know whom to ask (I'm not saying ONE person should be leader. I wish this to be a community project)

2) Figuring out the whole concept of it. How we'd implement this system RYucis worked out (and if that is the ideal thing for the Nether Network)

3) What would the Nether Network include. Only rails? A station? Maybe help with a community wither farm like the one shaw build in the old nether?

That would be the main organitsational problems right now?


So I got some thoughts on point 2:
Either the system of transportation would dictate the networkstruckture, meaning how you find a specific portal.
Up until now, I had a tree-like structure in mind, with one main station, for example 4 midway-stations and then the little substations that would have the individual ways to the portals (stations may be conveniently placed where portals near high-frequented region posts are).
A sketch of my first idea:


A bit taken from the LVS nether hub. Not a very efficient way
pro:
+ every portal has a definit adress
+ easy to understand and mangage
+very easy to connect new portals

con:
- a lot of track switching especially when transporting entities (but a maximum at that!)
- long ways

side note: are there any good and practical minecart distributors? for switching tracks without destroing the minecraft

-------------
Now, with RYucis' proposed (and working!) transporting system, another system would definitly need to be implemented.
My first idea was a almost chaotic subway-like line network to use that system:

drawing it I noticed that you'd probably need a 'tube plan' to navigate it and you may be lucky with not needing to switch many tracks but there could be quite some amount of changes too.

pro:
+ probably the shortest ways actually traveled
+ smaller stations

neutral:
~I do not know how quick it actually would be
~ adding new portals only by adding new lines

con:
-chaotic system: complicated to set up and add
- difficult to navigate if you only use in-game mechanics (no 'tube map')

side note: of course, switch stations can also be in the middle of a line
-----------------------------------

Then I tried to mix these ideas, with RYucius' system in mind:


All the sub stations are connected. Wait, now that I think of it, the main station is kinda useless. Okay, just imagine all the substations connected in a red circle. (I'll redo that one later)

so now, all the lines connect to (at least) one Sub (or now main) station which reduces the switching of rails to a minimum, but increases the traveled way massively ( not that great tho, cause they'd go both ways). So adding "short cuts" for horses or simple railways for person-use only may be a good thought. as adding a rail switcher in the four stations

pro:
+ lowest amount of rail switching to any rail
+ still pretty simple to understand and navigate
+ every portal would share an defined adress with like 4 other portals, so still easy to tell people the way

netural:
~ almost same addaptability as the second version: new portals would need to form a line
~ not that chaotic in overview and organisation

con:
-long ways to travel
- to make that better, additional horse ways for travel per foot (or simple railways)

side note: better picture soon!

---------------------------
so, I hope that could give you a nice overview about my thoughts on this matter! ( I probably forgot half of them tho)

[RYucuis]

So I am currently on vacation/holiday in till the 18th. So I think what I will do is rebuild my personal network and add my minecart system and then have you guys take a look to see what you think. Once you see a working system it would be easier to determine if it is something we want to use server wide or not.

[Treiskaideka]

sounds good. until then we can simply start on making out the normal paths (for horsies and maybe simple minecrat rails) from portal to portal. alone connecting all the portals right will be work.
btw here is the updated version of the system I currently have in mind.

The red line is the main line and should definitly have some kind of stopping system.
Then you can see in green the railway lines that are still thought with RYucuis' system in mind
Between them are "short cuts" : very basic roads for horses and if frequently traveled (but I wouldnt know why) you could add simple rails.

If there are portals far away, one could also add simeple ways to the nearest Sub station ect.

so until then, I'd still like to implement this Round Line format because I think it could be transformed easily to any other system.

Now I (we) need to figure the dimensions of this out. I'd say take the equivalent of some highly frequented regions that are aprox in four difrerent directions and build a portal near the post? Okay, you usaually use it to transport something so maybe we could also build one near a fortress where a wither farm could later be constructed?? I guess it would be nice to have everything close?

[lateoclock]

<sorry for the long post>
While a centralized organization for the Nether Network would be nice, I don't think it's terribly practical. Not at the outset at least.

Players will build tunnels where they want and need them, and instead of trying to force those tunnels to line up in some sort of organized fashion, it'd be more convenient to just let people do the work they're willing to do. Providing a guide for how to build tunnels/rails that will be easily integrated into the system would help players to add to the Network themselves, and give it a more cohesive feel.

The problem with that, however, is how to navigate inside the network. My solution to that would be to draw up or generate some sort of tunnel map, and update it with new tunnels whenever a player reports that they've expanded the Network.


This style guide contains 4 parts:
Portals, Stairs, Hallways, and Connections.
When you're done building remember to post to the Nether Network thread about your tunnel so we can add it to the map!

Portals:
Ok so you've got a portal you'd like to connect to the Network!
1) Label the portal with the region it goes to.
2) Enclose your portal in some sort of ghast-proof housing.

Label the outside with "Nether Network" and the region name.
3) Put an ender chest inside your little portal house there along with a sign saying you built the place.

4) If you're adding a rail to your tunnel, be sure to set up a launch spot.

You should post signs here listing where the rail stops.

Stairs:
Now that your portal is all protected and labeled, you'll want to make a staircase up to the tunnel system so you can connect to it (or, if you're a pioneer in your area, so that others can connect to you later!).
The Nether Network tunnel system floor is at Y=121 for ice-lined paths and railways,
and at Y=120 for other tunnels.
1) Build the stairs from your portal up to the correct height. (Please use actual stairs)
2) Encase your stairway in ghast-proof material, making the walls 4 blocks high.

3) If you're building a rail, place powered rails at 4-block intervals. They should have 3 non-powered rails between them.


Hallways:
Finally you're at the Nether Network tunnel height and ready to get moving.
Tunnel hallways should always travel straight! So pick a direction (X or Z) and build consistently in that direction until the coordinate matches with your goal. This means that good tunnel connections only turn once.
1) Whether you're building an ice-lined path, a railway, or a regular tunnel, you should start by digging a 3-block high hole with the floor at Y=120. Build it as wide as you like!
2) Fill in any holes in the sides of your tunnel
3a) If you're building a regular tunnel, you're done building!
3b) If you're building a rail, place powered rails every 6 or 7 blocks. Remember that powered rails can't bend around corners!

3c) If you're building an ice path, remember that ice melts and be judicious with your torch-placement (idk how that works), or just use packed ice and don't worry about it.

Connections:
1) If your tunnel connects to another tunnel, be sure to label the intersection. You should place signs indicating where your tunnel goes, who built it, and, if there's a rail, where the stops are.
2a) If your tunnel has a rail and the other tunnel does not, feel free to continue your rail along or across the other tunnel.
2b) If your tunnel has a rail and the other tunnel does too, you should build a stop for your rail before the intersection.
3) Build an intersection.

<NOTES>
- idk how to build rail intersections.
- idk how to build rail stops, but the idea is that they'd always stop you & you'd push a button to keep going.
- input on how to do the map would be useful
- on ice-lined paths, you'd put animals on a leads and jumpsprint through the tunnel. (leads don't break unless animals get caught on something.)
- actually riding horses is unnecessary unless there's no ice on the path. jumpsprinting is super fast, especially if you spam the spacebar.
- network hubs could totes be a thing still, this is just for if players want to build onto the network without getting permission or worrying about organization.

[Dax23333]

I think I may have some useful things to input from playing on lvs and using the nether hub there a lot.
Firstly, the lvs nether hub design works because lvs itself is mostly clustered evenly around spawn (or one of the few warps). As almost the only destinations are peoples bases there are very little, if any, shortcuts between two portals. Unfortunately on zurvival I understand you have many active regions, all of which would need to be connected to each other. I think the subway system idea posted further up would be better for zurvival, with each station being at a region. If you could lay this out on a grid system it would be relatively easy to navigate, with each region having an address corresponding to the intersection its on.
Giving people free reign over the main connections would end in a very, very messy system I think. The top of the lvs nether is a mess of tunnels, from quartz mining tunnels to railways.
Also, I would suggest you get a map as soon as possible of the locations of the regions. You may find there are a lot on one line, which would be a great site for a big main line.

[Kayzee21]

I don't see why there has to be a big regulated thing. People usually choose to move via the region posts. I don't think there needs to be a council or a deciding group. I don't think there should even be a format for the way I choose to set up my nether walkway. I understand that people need to move animals or villagers from here to there. There aren't going to be as many tunnels in use because the majority of the folks are absent from the nether and there hasn't been an animal update that requires the shuttling of animals to another place. I understand that if there isn't some kind of system in play that the people who do need to move their items may get criss-crossed, but it doesn't need to be a huge rail system with redstone and big elaborate maps. Just do your own thing and if it comes in contact with someone's stuff you talk it out and work together. That is my opinion on it all.

[Treiskaideka]

Okay, firstly my main idea for pepole to ask someone who is active a lot and knows the network well was, that the ones who want to build a tunnel can get help and advice, especially regarding to connect to other tunnels, so they won't need to build a whole second one, that may run parallel. So saving time, recources and avoid building a unavailable maze like dax talked about.
personally, I don't think a strickt style guide like late mentioned would be necessary. Especially since not everyone wants to build rails. But one material or a special name on signs would be good. And of course it should be ghost save and high enough to ride with horses (I do agree with the stairs being real stairs)

Then I really liked the idea to 'reserve' one special height for the nether network. Up there we could make sure to have it nicely organised and have the 'lines' be with ice and rails sooner or later.
We could have some main lines there, that are well build and far spread, so then everyone can build their own access to these lines.

So, in addition to my previous thoughts, I propose that a group of volunteers can build the basic grid that can be maintained by a group and will span via different lines over most of the populated parts of the map. These would be a community project and open for use to everyone.
BUT
1) any changes to the railway system have to be coordinated with whoever is in charge of maintaining the mein lines and updating the map.
2) before you start building, it may be of ad vantage to speak to one of these people/ send a pm. It's only to your advantage. At least notify them when you're done, so your access can be added in maps and way post signs ect.
3) any tunnel that connects there, must be labeled right and safe to use per foot, horse and animals on a leash.
4) all modifications to the tunnels, that don't include simply tearing down the few wall blocks to connect the the tunnels would basically be grief. So, no messing with the rails or the ice ect without asking.
5) connected tunnels are open tO be enhanced by the people in charge of the main grid (like adding ice, torches) unless stated otherwise by a sign and, even better, additionilly a notification via pm/forum thread/written book

That would leave a lot of freedom, everyone is free to connect it, but talking to someone who helped build the base thing can be helpful for every one.
And everyone would be free to build their own thing lower than that.
how does that sound?

So we'd start collectively to plan a basic grid that everyone can use or not, but collaborating would help everyone.
and maybe we'd get the okay from zed to put some of that on the nether. (Obviously no modification whatsoever by private persons allowed there)

I think that is an open enough system, while the wished for collaboration would decrease the maze building.
I only want this thing to help people. But one can't help people if they don't ask or tell about what they plan.

P.S. uhm so, when we block this specific height for the Nether network, any mining would not be allowed and tunnels that dont lead anywhere would be blocked off. Same with unsafe tunnels. The'd be closed off (doors) somehow and marked as unsafe. If nothing changes to them, the network pepole would be in their rights to make them safe.
P.P.S. how can I talk out with someone when tunnels cross, if I have no way of knowing whO build it? with one group to talk to, you can ask them, maybe they know more.

[Treiskaideka]

He my updated map: (only on the proposed top level about 120)
please ask questions ^.^


Urgh, I just wish there was a good Programm that would be able to create simple 2D maps where you can mark coordinates and read them out, with a spreadsheat support and good visual presentation an out reading of the coords by simply putting your mouse over them and marking them that way or via typing them in.
Does anyone happen to know something that'd be helpful?